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Опыт бразильского спирита
Rafael: Мне 32 лет и я встретил спиритизм в 1999. Сегодня, я - директор спиритического центра в моём городе. Есть 14 директоров и 7 областей в моём спиритическем центре. Он называется "вера, надежда и милосердие" (fé, esperança e caridade по-португальски) и ему 91 лет. Там, я координирую молодежную группу с двумя друзьями и я принадлежу к медиумическему группу.
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Rafael: backmont, I bought it, and two weeks ago I bought "Книга дихов" too, but I have problems with postal service here. I saw the Spirits' book in Hungarian here Remeber that Spartak Severin is not russian. He's belarussian. I don't know about Russia-Belarus relationship, but member of Internationall Spiritist Councill was in Belarus to present the books This video in portuguese, it's possible to see several books in Russian http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Et3qu887WSg In this video, the man, Cesar Perri says that there is no spiritist movement in the countries of the former Soviet Union, and that in Minsk there is an older group. I know that russian is widely spoken in Belarus. I also think that the main reason for the russian translation instead of belarussian is the book can reach Russia too. But, do they know about Rassvet site? Do they know there are people in Russia insterested about spiritism? I know rassvet site for several years. I downloaded the spiritist books from there, I think, ten years ago. Why didn't they make contact? Shyness? I think the answers are: no, no, they didn't know. It looks to me that Spartak is the link with ISC. It seems to me also that there is almost no young people interested. They know how to use internet better to make contact. I know Oleg posted in a Brazilian forum. He doesnt know it, but this made me to post here.
Rafael: backmont, I bought it, and two weeks ago I bought "Книга дихов" too, but I have problems with postal service here. I saw the Spirits' book in Hungarian here Remeber that Spartak Severin is not russian. He's belarussian. I don't know about Russia-Belarus relationship, but member of Internationall Spiritist Councill was in Belarus to present the books This video in portuguese, it's possible to see several books in Russian http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Et3qu887WSg In this video, the man, Cesar Perri says that there is no spiritist movement in the countries of the former Soviet Union, and that in Minsk there is an older group. I know that russian is widely spoken in Belarus. I also think that the main reason for the russian translation instead of belarussian is the book can reach Russia too. But, do they know about Rassvet site? Do they know there are people in Russia insterested about spiritism? I know rassvet site for several years. I downloaded the spiritist books from there, I think, ten years ago. Why didn't they make contact? Shyness?
backmont: Rafael, Oleg says that Spartak knows about the site Rassvet and this forum, and a person from Minsk group even wrote to the forum once. That's all. I think there is the same problem in Belarus as in Russia. There is no organization. Even book translators seem to be not interested in distributing their books in these countries. There's no way to buy a paper book even through Internet.
Rafael: backmont, that is the problem. I thought it would be easier if they wouldn't know us. Do you know as I found Oleg? I searched in Google "espiritismo russia" and found his post in a forum. I think there lack of enthusiasm about the new. He nicely wrote "Hello I'm form russia, we have a group here", and people merely say "wow, that's nice". There is also the other Rafael, my "xará" (brazilian portuguese to 'person with same name', from tupi 'xe ará' meaning 'my name'). He knows russian better than I, and he has a blog in Russian http://spiritizmvrossii.blogspot.com.br/. I've never talked with him, but maybe he can help us. I sent a message to International Spiritist Council about the books. I'm waiting for the answer.
backmont: Thanks for your help, Rafael. I'm looking forward to any news from you. Meanwhile, if you have enough time, can you write your thoughts about the following place in the Spirits' Book? In the Kardec's comments to point 188 we can read: According to the statements of spirits, the earth, as regards the physical and moral qualities of its inhabitants, is one of the least advanced of all the globes of our solar system. Mars is stated to be at a point even lower than that of the earth, and Jupiter to be greatly superior to the earth in every respect. Kardec claims that Mars is on the lower level than the Earth, so we should see material life on Mars. But nowadays we have many photos of the Mars surface and we don't see anything close to life there.
Rafael: Ok, this is the greatest point. Karced didn't affirm that Mars is on lower level and Jupiter is superior. He stated that, according to the spirits, Mars would be on lower level and Jupiter would be superior. The text in french says: Mars lui serait encore inférieur et Jupiter de beaucoup supérieur a tous égards. Note the conditional. I don't have the version in English, but both in Portuguese and in French the conditional is used. The main text of The Spirits' Book can be divided in four parts: Questions, Answers form the spirits, Comments of Kardec, those in the main body of text, and Notes of Kardec, that as footnote. That information falls in the last part. Kardec did not put it in the main body. I think that if he was sure about this, he would stated it there. But no, he wrote as footnoote using the conditional. I have checked both Russian (rassvet and severin) versions and I didn't note the conditional. But russian language is different, with aspects and so, I don't know how a russian speaker understands it Finnaly, of course Mars is boring, Jupiter is boring, Outside Earth, only Titan is interesting.
backmont: Rafael, thanks for your explanation. Your know, I just checked several translations into different languages and it turned out that in English and Russian versions those Kardec's words are in the comments inside the main text, but in the French and Portuguese versions they are in the footnote. That's odd. Maybe different translations were made from different editions of the original book? By the way, I downloaded an English translation from here: http://www.geae.inf.br/en/books/index.html And yes, there is no a conditional in Russian and English versions. There is an unconditional statement. And if I understood you correctly, you think that Kardec was unsure about those statements, so they might be wrong. I can accept that version. Actually I think that despite very careful selection of spirits' answers Kardec still could include some statements, that are not true.
Rafael: backmont, Spartak Severin version has this part as a footnote comment (a very big one, but yet a footnote) Yesterday, I was watching on Youtube a very good presentation about th philosophical aspect of spiritism. It states, among many things, that spiritist texts are not sacred and do not claim to be the absolute true, unlike all sacred religious texts claim to be. Spiritist texts claim to contain knowlegde, and acordding to philosophy, knowlegde must be justified (by means of logics and reason) and proved (by means of real facts). It is up to us to verify and reverify this knowlegde, and, as Kardec said, if it is wrong in some point, it must be changed in this point.
backmont: Rafael, in the first message I asked whether ordinary spiritists in Brazil have some weekly gatherings? In my opinion, if a person has read a book once, he tends to forget it with the lapse of time if he doesn't think of it again and again. Some periodic gatherings is a good opportunity to refresh the doctrine in memory and maybe even to figure out it more deeply. And gatherings could induce people to make their lives in accordance with the doctrine.
Rafael: backmont , I will answer you by listing the activities of my center. Sunday: 8:45 public study reunion 10:00 study groups Monday: 14:20 public study reunion 19:30 study groups Tuesday: study groups Wednesday: 19:00 study groups Thursday: 19:20 public study reunion 19:00 study groups 19:20 gospel classes for children Friday: 19:20 public study reunion 19:00 study groups Saturday: 15:30 study groups 15:30 gospel classes for children 17:00 spiritism class for teenagers We also have a library, a bookstore and theater group Some study groups are also mediunic, and all mediunic group must have a time for studying. I belong to 3 study groups. One mediunic, cald Leon Denis. The second helps the classes forchildren and teenagers, called Pestalozzi and the special group for older teenagers called Way of the Light.
backmont: Rafael, I remember you wrote that your center is oriented to the younger generation. But what about adults? Do they visit reunions and study groups holded by your center?
backmont: Rafael, can you write your point of view on the following question? According to spiritism, do plants have some kind of soul (spirit) like animals?
Rafael: backmont All but one of those study are for adults.
backmont: Rafael, did you ask your group about the possibility to share videos of your seances with us? Have you ever seen physical manifestations like the production of sounds, the movement and displacement of solid bodies, direct writing (pneumatography), etc?
Rafael: backmont There are so many things to discuss inside our group that I didn't have time for asking, sorry. backmont пишет: Have you ever seen physical manifestations like the production of sounds, the movement and displacement of solid bodies, direct writing (pneumatography), etc? Never. We do not expect physical effects.However we have received signs that this could happen in the future. They are useless to our aims: helping the beloved deceased relatives of people. Often some mediums feel pain int the same bodypart of the summonned spirit had when he was alive. I need to mention that the mediums are supposed to do not know anything about the summoned spirit.
backmont: Rafael, do you know if there are any other centers or groups in Brazil or any other country nowadays where spiritists can get messages from higher spirits?
Наталья: backmont в Бразилии много групп, и у нас небольшая группа в Беларуси. мы работаем по аналогии с тем, как работали в Бразилии. не ищем физических эффектов. цель - помочь конкретному человеку с его проблемой, чаще всего связанной с физическим здоровьем. а во многих случаях причина болезни неизвестна, для этого и нужна ИХ помощь.
backmont: Наталья, это хорошо, что в Беларуси есть ваша группа. Однако мне не совсем понятно, зачем нужно просить духов помочь со здоровьем и спрашивать их о причинах той или иной болезни. Обычно люди, когда болеют, обращаются в клиники и лечатся традиционными средствами. Если эти средства не помогают, люди начинают пробовать нетрадиционные методы - обращаться к экстрасенсам и целителям. Они цепляются за жизнь любыми способами, полагая, что после смерти ничего нет. Разве не было бы логичным объяснить им в соответствии с учением о спиритизме, что нет смысла держаться за эту жизнь, и что со смертью тела жизнь не заканчивается. И если пришло время умереть от болезни, нужно смириться с этим. Ведь в конечном счете переход от жизни в теле к жизни в духе есть особождение духа от тягот земной жизни, своего рода облегчение для духа. И наоборот нужно радоваться такой возможности.
Rafael: backmont, Physical body and health are tightly related to spiritual body and health. It is known that some diseases have spiritual causes and modern science cannot discover its origin. Many mental disorders have mediunic/obsession causes. And yes, people must go to the doctor and trust in medicine in order to have a cure. However, spiritist doctrine can help, comforting and explaining the reason for our pain. And about the life, it is the way we have to evolve ourselves, and every form to extend it is valid. It is the Law of Conservation. Most of people that arrive at spiritist center, do it because they suffer. Most of those few people that want to see physical effects go away once they see what they want. PS: I found some videos in Youtube in english, if you want them, I can post the links here
backmont: Rafael, yes, post them please.
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